Post by Lady Elwen on Mar 15, 2005 0:59:27 GMT -5
Regarding the key Arwen vs. Eowyn debate, I am the first to agree that a comeback from such intense pain and emotional trauma is worthy of commendation. Her tale is one of recovery from the depths of darkness and the ability to love and live again. She learns to appreciate life and what lies at hand, yes that's true. However, I do not in the slightest, think that Arwen did not suffer. Arwen suffered as well, beyond what is stated outright.
Arwen watched as her mother lost all love for Middle-Earth and was forced to pass to the Havens long before her time. She knew that it would be long before she would ever see her again, and once she and Aragorn met in Lothlorien for the second time, she knew that that parting had become forever.
She waited, unsure of if Aragorn would even live through the war. She had no way of knowing if he would indeed take his place and survive long enough for them to wed. Waiting is one of the most agonizing situations in existence. To have to wait for news of one you love, especially when said news concerns their health, safety, and general well-being, can be agony - the minutes do indeed feel like hours, and the hours as days. For all of their timeless immortal lives, Arwen may have indeed lost that concept of time from the minute she met Aragorn.
And 2000 years is a very long time to live and see the trials of the world around you. We complain after living for twenty years about how awful the situations are. War veterans live with those horrifying images emblazoned in their minds for some sixty years, give or take. How much pain, how much suffering, how much of life can you indeed take after 2000 years? Watching so much, watching and living and learning through the changes that inevitably come with every world and universe and situation cannot be easy. It does not matter how sheltered one is; there is always some exposure to some sort of pain. It is right next to impossible to live for so long without knowing any suffering.
She had to live with her father's unacceptance of her choice of marriage. For Elrond himself told Aragorn, "... I say to you: Arwen Undomiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor." It is not as harsh as betrothal (which neither Eowyn nor Arwen suffered), but it is nearly so, for true love happens of its own course, everlasting and unchangeable.
And furthermore, Arwen is hardly perfect. Looks are not everything, as we have pointed out multiple times. If Arwen were truly perfect, she would have lived quietly in Rivendell with her father and brothers, passed to Valinor when told to do so, lived there for the rest of her life, married prominently, as expected, and stayed with the people she was expected to stay with. Instead, she forsook her people, married a mortal, left all that was familiar to her for an unknown, less kind world, and accepted the consequences of her choice as it came. There is strength in going against the mold; to conform is not to show weakness, but to conform against your will when you yet have a choice is.
As Caesar said, "Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once." Neither woman shows cowardice in the slightest: Eowyn faces almost certain death (although her reasons may not be the purest in existence) and is still wiling to face what comes to her, and Arwen turns from a peaceful, immortal life to that of a mortal, however happy she may be.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; there is no disputing that. Opinions don't change, but it is reasonable to see both sides of the argument and understand where both sides come from.
Now, is it truly fair to compare Eowyn and Arwen? They both have a completely different outlook on life, and were raised in two very different situations. Eowyn is of the race of Men, brought up amidst fighting and brute strength and warfare, having both of her parents dead and being raised among primarily men in a kingdom of horselords by her uncle. Arwen was raised in a place commended for peace and tranquility, among a race that did not understand the test of time, except for a few cases, and her suffering, while present, was different than Eowyn's.
Regarding Aragorn, Eowyn met him in a time of war, when he came and rescued their people, and she saw him for the battle-worn, renowned man that he was. She did indeed respect him, and she fell in love with him because he showed her what she wanted to become: a warrior that had to freedom to come and go as he chose, bound by no ties to anything and the freedom of pure choice. Arwen met Aragorn in her homeland in a time of peace, getting to know the man he was inside, not the battle front that he is forced to wear. She was able to see him as he was in a natural, relaxed situation, and that is where you often see a person for who they are.
Arwen's strength lies in her hope; she has had to hope for her marriage, she has had to hope for the well-being of her mother, and she has had to hope that the course of time does not take too hard a toll on her love. Eowyn's strength lies in just that: strength. She knows that she can fight, and so takes her life to the battlefields for that reason, hoping that she can fight and win, or at least die honorably.
Both women are alike in some ways, and yet as different as the dandelion from the rose. And so I pose the question to you: is it truly fair to compare the Shieldmaiden and the Evenstar?
~ Elwen
Arwen watched as her mother lost all love for Middle-Earth and was forced to pass to the Havens long before her time. She knew that it would be long before she would ever see her again, and once she and Aragorn met in Lothlorien for the second time, she knew that that parting had become forever.
She waited, unsure of if Aragorn would even live through the war. She had no way of knowing if he would indeed take his place and survive long enough for them to wed. Waiting is one of the most agonizing situations in existence. To have to wait for news of one you love, especially when said news concerns their health, safety, and general well-being, can be agony - the minutes do indeed feel like hours, and the hours as days. For all of their timeless immortal lives, Arwen may have indeed lost that concept of time from the minute she met Aragorn.
And 2000 years is a very long time to live and see the trials of the world around you. We complain after living for twenty years about how awful the situations are. War veterans live with those horrifying images emblazoned in their minds for some sixty years, give or take. How much pain, how much suffering, how much of life can you indeed take after 2000 years? Watching so much, watching and living and learning through the changes that inevitably come with every world and universe and situation cannot be easy. It does not matter how sheltered one is; there is always some exposure to some sort of pain. It is right next to impossible to live for so long without knowing any suffering.
She had to live with her father's unacceptance of her choice of marriage. For Elrond himself told Aragorn, "... I say to you: Arwen Undomiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor." It is not as harsh as betrothal (which neither Eowyn nor Arwen suffered), but it is nearly so, for true love happens of its own course, everlasting and unchangeable.
And furthermore, Arwen is hardly perfect. Looks are not everything, as we have pointed out multiple times. If Arwen were truly perfect, she would have lived quietly in Rivendell with her father and brothers, passed to Valinor when told to do so, lived there for the rest of her life, married prominently, as expected, and stayed with the people she was expected to stay with. Instead, she forsook her people, married a mortal, left all that was familiar to her for an unknown, less kind world, and accepted the consequences of her choice as it came. There is strength in going against the mold; to conform is not to show weakness, but to conform against your will when you yet have a choice is.
As Caesar said, "Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once." Neither woman shows cowardice in the slightest: Eowyn faces almost certain death (although her reasons may not be the purest in existence) and is still wiling to face what comes to her, and Arwen turns from a peaceful, immortal life to that of a mortal, however happy she may be.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; there is no disputing that. Opinions don't change, but it is reasonable to see both sides of the argument and understand where both sides come from.
Now, is it truly fair to compare Eowyn and Arwen? They both have a completely different outlook on life, and were raised in two very different situations. Eowyn is of the race of Men, brought up amidst fighting and brute strength and warfare, having both of her parents dead and being raised among primarily men in a kingdom of horselords by her uncle. Arwen was raised in a place commended for peace and tranquility, among a race that did not understand the test of time, except for a few cases, and her suffering, while present, was different than Eowyn's.
Regarding Aragorn, Eowyn met him in a time of war, when he came and rescued their people, and she saw him for the battle-worn, renowned man that he was. She did indeed respect him, and she fell in love with him because he showed her what she wanted to become: a warrior that had to freedom to come and go as he chose, bound by no ties to anything and the freedom of pure choice. Arwen met Aragorn in her homeland in a time of peace, getting to know the man he was inside, not the battle front that he is forced to wear. She was able to see him as he was in a natural, relaxed situation, and that is where you often see a person for who they are.
Arwen's strength lies in her hope; she has had to hope for her marriage, she has had to hope for the well-being of her mother, and she has had to hope that the course of time does not take too hard a toll on her love. Eowyn's strength lies in just that: strength. She knows that she can fight, and so takes her life to the battlefields for that reason, hoping that she can fight and win, or at least die honorably.
Both women are alike in some ways, and yet as different as the dandelion from the rose. And so I pose the question to you: is it truly fair to compare the Shieldmaiden and the Evenstar?
~ Elwen
