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Post by Mithwen Delbaeth on Apr 29, 2005 11:13:45 GMT -5
Okay, I guess i started this thread for ranting. Okay here goes: 1) Arwen replaced Glorfindel and was shoved in our faces 2) Tom Bombadil is cut out 3) Faramir's character is really changed, he wants the Ring taken to Gondor and says "The Ring will go to Gondor" and in the book he said "I would take the Ring if it lay by the side of the road" and let Frodo and Sam go along on their way 4) The elves came to Helms Deep and tons of them died 5) Frodo told Sam to go home. GRRRR! This is the worst change of them all, sure PJ had to take some liberties but this was going way too far. What happened to "I made a promise Mr.Frodo! A Promise! Don't you leave him Samwise Gamgee, and I don't mean to!"?!
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Post by Lady Elwen on May 1, 2005 14:58:24 GMT -5
*grins* I can answer those... I may not agree, but I can answer those... For Glorfindel, having another actor playing Glorfindel would have been tough - they had so many people, and aside from the Council and the Ford, Glorfindel doesn't otherwise appear in the finale. Having Arwen take his place solved that problem and allowed them to introduce Arwen. I don't like it, since Arwen becomes so OOC, but it makes sense, and is less confusing to people who haven't read the books. Tom Bombadil was just complicated - it took me two times around to figure him out. I wish he hadn't been cut, but again, for sake of non-canon fans, it's less confusing. Faramir... It was probably done to show the lure of the ring, but yes, that irritated me no end. It had no real point, and kind of destroyed Faramir's characterization. Faramir isn't that kind of a person. The Elves... No exp. whatsoever, and I'm still mad about that. Why in Eru's name did they kill off Haldir?? I suppose it was to show more of the casualty of battle as more of an anti-war perspective, and the taking of an immortal life that should have continued forever was a good way to do so, but still.... Growl... Frodo and Sam... I guess to up the angst and show Gollum's extreme attempts at corruption, but yeah, that was really, really annoying.... No further comment... ~ Elwen
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Post by Mithwen Delbaeth on May 7, 2005 10:29:01 GMT -5
I can understand why Tom wasn't in the movies. They couldn't have everything, but it still would have been cool to have him in there.
I guess people may have different opinions on Glorfindel being replaced. The reasonings behind it are definatly valid, but seeing it from the point of veiw of and Arwen-hater it is definatly an unnessisary change in my opinion.
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Post by Anaroriel on May 11, 2005 17:37:48 GMT -5
Ooh! Ooh! Can I join in?
1) I see your point, but like Elwen said, too many characters and too less of time. And frankly, I didn't like Glorfindel. *gasp* No, it's true. I wasn't heartbroken by the chance, he's not that important of a character, and only a little bit more important than Figwit.
2) I mourn over Tom Bombadil's cut. But if you really do think about it, his personality does not match the tone of the rest of the books. IMHO, he's too random, and the movies work without him.
3) I HATED the change of Faramir. I don't care about what PJ said was for the best, it was not the best when I first saw it. The first time I saw it (which was before I read the books) was "Man, what a jerk!" and that just isn't true. But, the more I think about (grudgingly of course) I suppose their reasoning does make since...
4) Yeah, the Elves were kind of random, weren't they?
5) Note to Elwen: Annoying? Your strongest adjective towards this abomination is annoying??!! Frodo in the books would never have sent Sam away! They totally screwed his character up! If they wanted to show Gollum's extreme attempts at corruption, they could have gone up to that point of making Frodo doubt, but never sending Sam away!
Well, ok, for the benefit of trying to see both sides, I suppose it was for the best... *twitch twitch* when it comes to going into Shelob's lair. So Frodo could go in alone. I guess.
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Post by Lady Elwen on May 15, 2005 17:23:04 GMT -5
Glorfindel... Well, I liked him. I wish he'd been there, but it wasn't one of those things that I was jumping up and down about. *shrugs* Arwen or no Arwen (I was more apalled that Arwen showed up than that Glorfindel didn't...), it was just... there. Tom... "Random" is the word. Nothing more. Faramir... I'm trying to remain polite... Elves... Again, "random" is the word... And Ana? Yes, annoying was my pick. This forum is g-rated, technically. I have no desire to get nasty about it. ;D If you want my actual ideas, you're going to have to ask me elsewhere!! Hehe ~ Elwen
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Post by Mithwen Delbaeth on May 23, 2005 18:16:51 GMT -5
My dad had a point about Tom that I think I should mention because it makes sense. Why was he there? Well he lived in a place of peace, he could handle the Ring as if it were just something to wear for fashion. He gave the Hobbits hope and strength. They could have stayed with Tom maybe and not go on the whole entire dangerous journy. But they did, making them stronger.
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Post by Anaroriel on May 24, 2005 21:57:09 GMT -5
Oh, wow, Eldariel, I've never thought about Tom that way. That does make sense. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that!
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Post by Lady Elwen on Jun 4, 2005 21:21:47 GMT -5
I agree with Angel - very interesting concept there. I suppose we're back to it being a give or take matter - no matter where you go, you just can't win!!! He's either so random that no one who doesn't know the books can get it or else they try to make that point and confuse everyone... *growls*
~ Elwen
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Post by Anaroriel on Jun 5, 2005 20:36:01 GMT -5
*looks for Angel's post* No... that would mean... *gasp* Elwen! It's me, Ana! Ana, you remember her? Goofball with an temper when it comes to Arwen and an obsession with Elvish? Me? Jk. Gosh, we got to get Angel in here to get you really confused. ;D Yes, there is no winning to the situation. Gosh darn it, we, the Tolkien fans, need to make our own movie! Word for word. Oh yeah. *falls asleep during Council of Elrond* Or, take the Adventures of Tom Bombadil and that section of the book and make a movie there. For kids of course.
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Post by Lady Elwen on Jun 6, 2005 0:18:26 GMT -5
Wait - Ana who? She's here? *confused look* Ana..... *thinks* Oh, HER!!!! Got you!! Just kidding - sorry; was thinking about one of her posts, and may have been emailing her at the time... Growl..... Sorry.... Really sorry.... Yeah, our own movie would be fantastic. Anyone feel like paying Peter and cast/crew to remake it verbatim from the book for private distribution to canon fans?? Never mind how much money that would be... and I think all the actors would kill us for having to deal with the prosthetics and training again, but hey.... And actually, I liked the Council in the book; I'm one of those weird people who loved breaking things down and analyzing them to the last of their possible existence. I find that so much fun. And yeah, Tom Bombadil would make such a fantastic kid's movie - or not, even. The version published without LoTR (I think it's also contained in the Tolkien Reader) would be so funny.... ~ Elwen
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Post by Anaroriel on Jun 6, 2005 16:38:24 GMT -5
*sobs* Me!!! Ana!! *cries* Lol. Jk, I just wanted to tease you about it. I mean, my mother can't even keep her own children straight and I find it funny. Bah! Who needs those actors and PJ? We make our own movie! You know how many Tolkienites out there have pretty convincing costumes and memoribilia? And we can come up with our own actors. I want to be... no wait, no character in LotR looks like me. Drat. Ok, I'll be an extra in Rohan. Or a hobbit! Sounds like a good plan, no? Ok, Elwen. *pulls out straight jacket* We'll take you to a nice safe place with padded walls, does that sound good? Jk. Wow, I never thought I'd know someone who liked the Council of Elrond. I almost fell asleep during it. *shrug* To each her own... Yeah! Tom Bombadil!
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Post by Lady Elwen on Jun 15, 2005 17:41:06 GMT -5
Haha I kind of figured, but hey... I do know who you are... maybe... Oh there you go.... That would be interesting... Let's see... Who wants to reconstruct Orthanc and then Barad-dur? Gah!!! Well, no one looks like me, either, so we're even... although with makeup, I might pass for an Elf, although one of the Rohirrim would work... (Dye my hair blonde and get colored contacts; might pass for Eowyn... ) And I think Angel once said she sort of resembles Arwen in a way... So yay, we have some cast!! ;D Haha I know... Most people didn't like it, but then, I never think like most people... hehe... ~ Elwen
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Lady Adara
Dwarf
.:~:. Adara's Rose .:~:.
Posts: 71
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Post by Lady Adara on Aug 25, 2005 21:38:22 GMT -5
*waves* Can I be Galadriel? Please?? Ooh, and speaking of Galadriel, I had the weirdest thing said to me the other day, which made me call Galadriel - a friend was watching a Cate Blanchett interview and turned around and told me that I looked exactly like her, except that my hair was longer and more wavy. So my intelligent response is, "Ooh!! Galadriel!!" ;D And Elwen - I liked the Council scene, too, so it's all good.... Hehe.. Anyway, back on topic... Sort of... 1) Arwen replaced Glorfindel and was shoved in our faces.I guess Arwen needed a more solid part and a better introduction... *shrugs* I don't know. It was annoying in that she appeared when we knew she wasn't supposed to, but while I adore Glorfindel, it didn't irritate me that much... 2) Tom Bombadil is cut out.Yeah, that was bad... Tom was unbelievably confusing and was too random for words, but I like Eldariel's comment. And moreover, it's just canon!!! 3) Faramir's character is really changed, he wants the Ring taken to Gondor and says "The Ring will go to Gondor" and in the book he said "I would take the Ring if it lay by the side of the road" and let Frodo and Sam go along on their way.*growls something incomprehensible* 4) The elves came to Helms Deep and tons of them died .WHY? ?? Why did they kill off the Elves and Haldir?? What was the bloody freaking point of that?? *breathes* Anyway. Yes, that was horrible. I hate it. Showing casualty and the impact of battle in anti-war is great. Killing off Elves and Haldir, immortality or no, is not. 5) Frodo told Sam to go home. GRRRR! This is the worst change of them all, sure PJ had to take some liberties but this was going way too far. What happened to "I made a promise Mr.Frodo! A Promise! Don't you leave him Samwise Gamgee, and I don't mean to!"?!It upped the angst, but it was ridiculous. I don't know how they intended to get away with it. It really made me... mad, to say the least. At least Frodo didn't kill Gollum, though... (I can't believe they were going to have him do that...) ~ Adara
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Post by miniSlayer on Sept 22, 2005 21:12:21 GMT -5
Only gonna answer the ones I have problems with. 1) Arwen replaced Glorfindel and was shoved in our faces Everyone knows my stance on that. Grr.... 3) Faramir's character is really changed, he wants the Ring taken to Gondor and says "The Ring will go to Gondor" and in the book he said "I would take the Ring if it lay by the side of the road" and let Frodo and Sam go along on their way Lots of people seem to make a big deal about this, but I find it more true to human nature. In a movie like LotR, PJ would just make it seem like there's this one, amazing character who can do no wrong. That just seems flawed. To make Faramir more real is to make him believable to the general public. It worked for Tolkien fans, but for action-buff extremists it would make them groan. 4) The elves came to Helms Deep and tons of them died Um, not really concerned with the dying issue, it's the fact that they came at all. The Elves were getting ready to battle back at home! They should be there, not massacring Uruks!
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Eilian
Hobbit
.:~*~:. Rainbow .:~*~:.
Posts: 37
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Post by Eilian on Sept 22, 2005 21:29:01 GMT -5
Good point about Faramir - hadn't thought about that. I'm not sure I like the changes, but that perspective makes a little more sense...
And yes, the Elves even existing there was just wrong. It was out of place and just not pertaining to much of anything. Whatever happened to Erkenbrand? *mutters*
~ Eilian
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Angel
:~TOA~: Fellowship
.+*Elven Beauty*+.
Posts: 60
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Post by Angel on Sept 25, 2005 3:22:48 GMT -5
Mmmm that's true bout the elves, but i reckon PJ could only go too far before he created a much too confusing film, or one with too much background dialogue.
People love the movies, but some people think it's already too confusing so...
~ Angel ~
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