Post by Lady Elwen on Jul 6, 2005 23:47:16 GMT -5
This is rather an outlandish idea, which is why I'm not putting this under "Manuscripts", but has anyone truly considered another reason why Denethor seemed to hate Faramir so?
This is, to be honest, the result of me thinking way too much while lying in ER and waiting for two bags of IV fluids to finish doing whatever it was they were supposed to do as massive amounts of drugs were trying to put me to sleep.
But this is what I began to think, somewhere, I suppose, in my subconscious, which is a scary thought when you get right down to it...
Aragorn served in Gondor at Minas Tirith when Ecthelion II served as Steward. It is only said in the Tale of Years that he served Ecthelion, not the Citadel, and there one can guess that he was not sworn into the service of Gondor and merely that of the Steward, which is why he merely left after one of the Corsair battles at Pelargir and was not listed for treason.
During the time of his service, one can make the clear assumption that he knew Finduilas (i.e. wife of Denethor). There is equal speculation that Denethor strongly disliked Thorongil and, with his foresight, perhaps even knew who Thorongil truly was, but that remains somewhat irrelevant to my point. So, knowing Denethor for the character we are given, we can guess that he began using the palantir early in his service as Steward because of the times he served. If that, in turn, led to lack of attention to Finduilas, who is to say that Thorongil may not be the true sire of Faramir - and that Denethor guessed, if not knew, and therefore hated Faramir all the more? After all, saying that he wished Faramir dead instead of Boromir is as clear indication of favoritism if I've ever heard it...
It is said by Tolkien himself, in an interesting interpretation by Pippin in Return of the King, Book Five, Chapter 4, "Seige of Gondor", that:
I find that interesting. It is also a conclusion that may be drawn that Faramir was far more into lore - especially that of the Elves - than Boromir was, for Beregond himself says to Pippin that "men are slow to believe that a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field."2
If Boromir, too, was a man of lore among his people, he, as Captain-General of Gondor and, I believe, High Warden of the White Tower, although that could be wrong, would have undergone similar speculation. The fact that only Faramir is mentioned under those lines, and that in comparison as less bold than Boromir, leads to the impression that Boromir was not much of a lore-master.
Alas, this is all speculation on my part, but perhaps there is yet someone who would think this and link things together. I don't necessarily believe it, myself, but I find it an interesting idea. I may have read something on this, once, as well, but I can't for the life of me remember where, or if I did. It's highly "against" canon, but hey.
If you ever want random flashes of what may or may not be inspiration, go spend some time in a hospital bed in ER. It does things for you.... Trust me...
1: Return of the King, Book Five, Chapter 4, "Siege of Gondor"; p. 792 of the Houghton-Mifflin 1-volume edition and p. 77 of the Ballantine individual volumes
2: Return of the King, Book Five, Chapter 1, "Minas Tirith"; p. 750 of the Houghton-Mifflin 1-volume edition and p. 26 of the Ballantine individual volumes
This is, to be honest, the result of me thinking way too much while lying in ER and waiting for two bags of IV fluids to finish doing whatever it was they were supposed to do as massive amounts of drugs were trying to put me to sleep.
But this is what I began to think, somewhere, I suppose, in my subconscious, which is a scary thought when you get right down to it...
Aragorn served in Gondor at Minas Tirith when Ecthelion II served as Steward. It is only said in the Tale of Years that he served Ecthelion, not the Citadel, and there one can guess that he was not sworn into the service of Gondor and merely that of the Steward, which is why he merely left after one of the Corsair battles at Pelargir and was not listed for treason.
During the time of his service, one can make the clear assumption that he knew Finduilas (i.e. wife of Denethor). There is equal speculation that Denethor strongly disliked Thorongil and, with his foresight, perhaps even knew who Thorongil truly was, but that remains somewhat irrelevant to my point. So, knowing Denethor for the character we are given, we can guess that he began using the palantir early in his service as Steward because of the times he served. If that, in turn, led to lack of attention to Finduilas, who is to say that Thorongil may not be the true sire of Faramir - and that Denethor guessed, if not knew, and therefore hated Faramir all the more? After all, saying that he wished Faramir dead instead of Boromir is as clear indication of favoritism if I've ever heard it...
It is said by Tolkien himself, in an interesting interpretation by Pippin in Return of the King, Book Five, Chapter 4, "Seige of Gondor", that:
Here was one with an air of high nobility such as Aragorn at times revealed, less high perhaps, yet also less incalculable and remote: one of the Kings of Men born into a later time, but touched with the wisdom and sadness of the Elder Race.1
I find that interesting. It is also a conclusion that may be drawn that Faramir was far more into lore - especially that of the Elves - than Boromir was, for Beregond himself says to Pippin that "men are slow to believe that a captain can be wise and learned in the scrolls of lore and song, as he is, and yet a man of hardihood and swift judgement in the field."2
If Boromir, too, was a man of lore among his people, he, as Captain-General of Gondor and, I believe, High Warden of the White Tower, although that could be wrong, would have undergone similar speculation. The fact that only Faramir is mentioned under those lines, and that in comparison as less bold than Boromir, leads to the impression that Boromir was not much of a lore-master.
Alas, this is all speculation on my part, but perhaps there is yet someone who would think this and link things together. I don't necessarily believe it, myself, but I find it an interesting idea. I may have read something on this, once, as well, but I can't for the life of me remember where, or if I did. It's highly "against" canon, but hey.
If you ever want random flashes of what may or may not be inspiration, go spend some time in a hospital bed in ER. It does things for you.... Trust me....*.~.*.~.*.~.*.~.*.~.*.~.*.
1: Return of the King, Book Five, Chapter 4, "Siege of Gondor"; p. 792 of the Houghton-Mifflin 1-volume edition and p. 77 of the Ballantine individual volumes
2: Return of the King, Book Five, Chapter 1, "Minas Tirith"; p. 750 of the Houghton-Mifflin 1-volume edition and p. 26 of the Ballantine individual volumes
