Legolas

[Varda]

So out of curiosity, what do you people all think of Legolas? I know some people absolutely worship him, others hate him, and some just don't care.

I personally liked Legolas in the books and thought the films kind of tossed him out the window. Am I the only one who thinks that? I'm mildly irritated simply because all these people worship him because they think Orlando Bloom is so hot, and I don't think so... then that's just me...

Anyone else?

~ Varda

Sorry - I don't know if this was the right thread to bring this up in, or if it should have gone under Cinema, but it seemed like the better place.

[mirluinwen]

i completely agree, i didn't think Orlando was that hot to begin with but in the film it made him look rather pathetic. its probable some people only watched it to see him, especially after the first one.

[Lady Elwen]

Thank heavens there's someone else who thinks that!! I think I fall into the "just don't care" category for the most part...

I really liked him in the books, and thought he was somewhat all right in the films, but as they went on, I was just more and more turned off by what they did to his character.

Elves aren't some super gymnasts that don't talk - they're graceful, wise, and strong warriors. What the films ultimately did - and I find it curious to note that this occurred with Legolas alone and no other Elf - was overexaggerate the physical capabilities of the Elves while degrading their verbal capacity.

Honestly - in the films, what did he do? He just sort of.... exists. He either does these random stunts that have really no point, or he's delivering some really obvious lines.

I mean, "A diversion." My first reaction was "Really now?? I thought we were going up to invite Sauron to tea!!!"

In the films, he had a little less of a role than, say, Aragorn or Faramir or someone like that, but his role was far more substantial and concrete in the books than the films.

As for Orlando... I'm just not the kind of person who can die over someone I don't know or never will know. *shrugs* But I'm just weird like that. I'm not saying he's ugly or anything... but I am saying that he's way overrated.

So that's my spiel - do I have the angry mob coming after me now?

~ Elwen

[Elbereth]

*snorts* No kidding. The guy is so freaking overrated!! Sorry to all Orli or Legolas fans, but after what they've turned Legolas into, I can't stand him!!! Book character is fantastic, but the character in the movies is just.... gah!!! It's enough to make me want to scream - what's with the Elf becoming a verbally limited gymnast??!! SO much more time could have been given to the battle or to an actual character for the poor guy!!

*takes deep breath* Right. Sorry. Done now...

~ Elbereth

[Varda]

Yeah, no kidding. lol... No, I'm not coming after you Elwen - I don't think anyone else is, either, so you're safe.

I love how you said the "verbally limited gymnast" comment. Both of you, good phrasing. And yes, sad as it is, that's pretty much what's happened, and I don't like it.

The thought of people watching these films for a good glimpse of eye-candy just makes me sick. So much more could have gone into the character, rather than contrasting him so sharply to the other Elves.

I personally loved that LoTR IV in the Roverandom board that said Legolas was played by Gwyneth Paltrow!

~ Varda

[The One and Only Skande]

Wow, an excellent topic to bring up: And I completely agree with a lot of what you guys said.

Personally, Legolas is my favorite character, but certainly not for the movies' sake. I started writing about him mostly because of what he *doesn't* do in the movies, because I felt his role was, 1: insignificant, to say the least, while in the books he *acts* like an elf *and* talks like an elf, and 2: Honestly, if everyone out there didn't think he was so sickeningly handsome, wouldn't they be slamming him for the comparatively lame part he played in the movie? Think about it: An actor gets a lame, overrated, slapdash script that completely degrades his part in the actual base story, and if he's "hot" (*gag*) they don't say a thing concerning it. Except how hot they think he is, of course.

Another reason I started writing about him was this: (And you will probably hear this from a lot of Legolas lovers, compared to Orlando Bloom lovers) is his blank past. Pretty much all Tolkien gave us to go on is that he's a Mirkwood elf who shows up at the council, gets picked by Elrond for the Fellowship, and also happens to be a son of the King of Mirkwood. Thus, much room for expansion and expounding.

I guess the best way to explain it is this: I love the Legolas character that I have created in my mind, complete with history and, believe-it-or-not, personality, and not the mute, watered-down acrobat n the films. And seriously-- the surfing down the stairs and sliding down the Mumakil trunk? Even in theaters I wanted to crawl under my seat.

Well, that's about all I have to rave about at the moment, but good idea to whoever brought this up! I can't stand people (and I could name a few) who think and claim they love Legolas merely for his looks, when they truthfully don't know a real thing about either him or his character.

Tataa! :-)

-Skande

[Nurnoviel]

Alright, here's my two cents. Before the movies came out and I had only read the books I neither liked him nor disliked him. His character was never one that stood out for me, except in relation to his friendship with Gimli. After I began to realize that these two had formed an unusual bond I noticed him a lot more, but I stiill never gave him much thought.

Then the films came out, and bam, all I hear about is: 'Legolas is amazing!' 'I love Orli!' 'Did you see the elf?' I check out the fanfiction on the net and, lo and behold, all I see is: LeGGY iz soooo HOTT!!!11!! I LUV LEgalos!

And please don't get me started on the utter craziness of Legomance. I've just eaten and I can't stomach it. But when I finally found quality stories about Legolas (much thanks to Skande ) I saw his potential as a character and felt robbed that he wasn't a more influencial presence in the books and films. As Skande said a few posts back, Tolkien gave us an almost blank slate to work with and I actually wrote my own piece about him a few months ago.

So, to summarise my ranting, Legolas wasn't much in the books, he was too much in the films, and he's absolutely fantastic in fanfiction.

[Lady Elwen]

Good point; I love the characters with those obscure, half-done pasts that you just get hit with ideas to fill. Legolas is one of those. I know a fanfiction author (on FFNet, by Cassia), who does a downright excellent series on Legolas and Aragorn friendship. Lots of torture, yes, but very well done. Reads like a set of novels.

Yeah, in fanfiction, depending on the writer, Legolas is incredible. The sappy Mary-Sue romances drive me up the wall, but a well-written story focusing on him as a person do it well.

I mean, my main OFC (in the series that only a few of you have seen... is indeed married to Legolas. Why? Because, believe it or not, I needed a prominent canon figure for her to marry because I was too lazy to figure out another OC. I also figured that he didn't do much and was somewhat expendable. And it's amazing how conditioned people are now to jump, scream, and shoot at any person who marries him off. I've gotten these flaming reviews about how Mary-Sues should die and go to Hades and how I need to start writing something else. It's really really funny, because objectively, I've gotten no mention of that.

Legolas' character has been really messed with lately, especially because of the movies, and I agree with Skande in saying that if people weren't so obsessed with his looks, they'd be able to see the flaws in his film character, as well as appreciate the Elf/Dwarf union he shows.

And I agree with Nurv - I love your portrayal of Legolas, Skande.

~ Elwen

[Elbereth]

Haha Elwen ~ I know what you mean!! I think I've seen the first installment of that series - are you on FFNet with the same pename? If yes, then I've read that, and seen a couple of the reviews. I loved the one about you doing self-insertion. I found that sufficiently amusing.

I mean, I hate Mary-Sues, too, but years of reading fanfiction have made me more aware of what is and isn't a "real" Mary-Sue. Yours isn't - being married to Legolas isn't what gives her power, nor is she perfect. (The eye-colour argument is great!) I love the stuff like yours; I read the notes in Ch. 8, and I was laughing so hard. You made some really great points...

Good point, Skande, about the whole "blank past" issue; in fanfic and the books, I really like how people have developed him, you included, perhaps especially. I'll get around to reviewing sometime soon. But the very fact that we really don't know his history is something that draws us to him and makes us want to learn more about him when there isn't more to learn.

I've heard a lot of authors say something like that. Didn't you once mention that, Elwen? And it makes sense. That is, after all, part of the point of true, quality fanfiction. (One of the things I like about this archive - you guys take all the good-quality work and list it, no matter how small it may be.)

And as several people have said, people going in for a good view isn't a good reason for seeing these films. Why bother? Grab a picture of Orlando and drool over that instead of disturbing the people who could appreciate the film and the characters for what they are. Anyone with an objective perspective can see how underdone Legolas was, and I think it's sad.

Legolas is no longer... Legolas, if you get my meaning. He's overrated, a hottie, and just some random blonde Elf on screen. He no longer truly represents the Elves for the Fellowship as he was meant to do, and I think that's really sad. He is a member of the Elven race, yes, but his character is so vastly contrasted to that of the others, like Elrond, or Galadriel, or any other Elf in the films, even Haldir, that he doesn't seem like a true Elf. As stated multiple times, he's an all but mute acrobat who does pointless, overdone stunts and delivers the lines of the jester. Why?

I've heard somewhere that Peter "hates Elves because of what he's done to them" or something. While I don't think that's true in that he hates them, has anyone noticed the vast changes, like Arwen and Elrond?

~ Elbereth

[Lady Elwen]

*laughs* Yes, I am, and thank you; good to know someone agrees with me!

But yeah, I think those blank moments in the book, the little obscurities in a character's past, are the things that draw people to writing fanfiction. They want to see more of it, and they don't want it to end.

So yes, technically, writing about Legolas as the ultimate Elven beauty could count, since we don't really know that one to the other, but honestly... can it sound a bit better?

His character has become such a symbol of popularity that it no longer represents what it was originally supposed to be; it is his quiet support that aids not only the Fellowship, but Aragorn as well, in reaching the end. It could not have been met without all nine members, no matter how much one does or says.

His quiet wisdom plays off well in the books, but I think they just needed more for him to say in the films and ran out of ideas for good lines. In doing so, the character was degraded and so twisted from the vision of ethereal grace and beauty that it isn't truly that of an Elf, save in physical characteristics.

The book version does, perhaps, say some obvious lines, but they aren't so completely obvious as a child could discern. The words lend some insight to what has/can occur, and it does prove worth it in the end.

So here's to the canon Legolas!

~ Elwen


Oh - and Elbereth; good points with Elrond and Arwen and Galadriel and the like, but let's not bring that up in this thread. If you want to get more into their movie/book characters, go ahead and post up some individual threads in this board.

[Varda]

Yeah, the unfinished past was one of the most alluring parts of Legolas for me... until I saw the films... It's not that they solved the past, but rather that they took away the vague interest to him. I stopped caring, ultimately, simply because I didn't want to.

I'd always wondered what his parents were like; all we know of them really is that Thranduil is the King of Mirkwood, or Lasgalen, or whatever you choose to call it, and that his mother left early; we don't even know whether she died or passed to the Havens.

I've always adored that ambiguity - really wanted to get deeper into it. The relationship between Thranduil and Legolas is something a lot of people are drawn to - the abusive father facade has almost turned into part of canon.

The same goes for his friendship with Aragorn. We don't know if it's true or not, whether they just met at the Council, or whether they'd met years ago. And now... *shrugs* It's sort of annoying. But yes, Skande, your fics are brilliant; I love reading them. Brings back a little of that longing to understand his past - you've done it well.

~ Varda

[Lady Elwen]

*waves* Jumping back into the sort-of-dead thread for no other reason than because I have found inspiration for a reply!! ;D

But yes, Varda's first paragraph says it perfectly: they took away the vagueness that was Legolas' appeal. What does that do? It makes people want to to focus elsewhere, because the things they found alluring to begin with were either changed, eliminated, or completely redone or formulated from thin air. Either that, or people are attracted to him for the wrong reasons, i.e. because he's "hot".

And I've wondered about his parents, too - I always want to call his mother Elenwe (Idril's mother) for some random reason... - especially the non-existence of his mother. Look at Thranduil: there's the constant appearance of him as a harsh father, to the point that it's almost accepted as canon. We've several of those stories here, and I don't mind, since they give warning of it's non-canonical sense, but while I almost like that perspective in the sense of depth to a father-son relationship, it's weird that it's been solved that way. (Sorry - random point...)

I think that Peter and his crew took Aragorn and Legolas and really expanded upon what is a mostly supposed friendship. One can guess that the neighboring elvendoms would have kept contact, and that Legolas would have therefore had contact with Rivendell and its occupants, but we've no idea how close that would have made him to Aragorn. I, personally, think he had more of a chance at friendship with Elladan and Elrohir, but hey... That whole... square, I guess, is easy to write because of the assumed close ties they have, but we have no way of knowing.

As a ref. to the films, look at what occurs in Moria between Aragorn and Legolas: they're always the ones talking. After the Watcher drags the gates, Aragorn ends up behind Legolas. Legolas catches Aragorn after the jump on the Stairs. Being one who doesn't believe in slash, it's odd seeing how many people read into that. I think that Peter and his team paired them off intentionally - it occurs too much to be chance writing.

The concept of Aragorn/Legolas friendship is wonderfully alluring, and I find it sweet, but how, exactly, it appeared is what annoys me. The films aren't something to base the canon facts upon.

And may I just say that I once heard someone saying that the books were wrong? "It wasn't in the film! The books aren't correct!!" I almost died right there....... *rolls eyes*

~ Elwen

[Libby]

Management Note: This thread has been deleted because of improper placement. It pertains to the films alone and this board is for discussion on the written works.

Your post content is questionable, but if you wish to continue this discussion on a film basis, please start a new thread in the Cinema board (directly below this one in the index).

Thank you,
Tales of Arda management

[Mithwen Delbaeth]

I like Legolas but I do agree that his character was badly changed in the movies. I perfer the way he is in the books. In the movies he is kind of girly. They even changed his appearance. In the books he has dark hair. In the movies he has kind of become captin obvious. Like "A diversion" even though i like Legolas I am saying "No duh, Legolas, What else could we be doing?"

[Lady Elwen]

Well, the thing about dark hair is a discrepancy that can't be solved; the books say that his head is covered in darkness or whatnot (sorry; don't have the books on hand right now), but it could just be attested to the fact that it was night and Frodo was looking up at him. Considering that characters like Arwen and Luthien were noted for their unusual dark hair, one would think that Legolas would be, as well, if he were dark-haired, and being a Silvan elf, having dark hair would be really strange...

I'm not sure he was quite turned into a girl - I think that was more a fandom interpretation, because of him never really having a hair out of place...

And yeah... his dialogue is horrible...

~ Elwen

[Coriandra]

I think his father was described in The Hobbit as golden haired, so it's reasonable to assume Legolas was too, in my mind at least. I never had a problem with Legolas in the book, except that he didn't do much. Too bad, he would have been interesting if he were more developed. That's one reason I like well written fanfiction, it helps flesh out characters we don't much know much about from the book.

I agree completely that he didn't do much in the movies, except shoot arrows and look sexy. Still, I liked him in TTT, with his concern for the people of Rohan and the beginning of his friendship with Gimli.

[Lady Elwen]

Right, so unless his mother was dark haired and managed to pass on that trait.... Which doesn't make sense, because it seems that the dark-haired gene in the Elves was the recessive trait, for all intents and purposes... Yeah, was doing AP Bio work, and stuck in that mindset...

It's funny - more and more people are convinced that all Legolas was good for was to forge that bridge between Elves and Dwarves, which in my opinion is really, really sad....

~ Elwen

[Lady Adara]

Legolas... Oh I don't know... He was, to me, a good character in the books, although decidedly underdeveloped and out of the qpotlight, but the films really ruined the character. Orlando Bloom did a good job with the character, considering what he was given, but the actual development of it needed much more work.

He was important in his friendship with Gimli, rather closing the gap between Elves and Dwarves, and I think that his true importance came after the Ring War, in the rebuilding of Gondor...

As for the dark hair issue, I'm fairly sure he was blonde - Thranduil was, and I think that Elwen is right in saying that dark hair is "recessive" in Elves, especially Silvan Elves. Even if his mother was dark haired, it likely wouldn't have had any effect...

~ Adara